(no subject)

[intothewood]

Thanks for all of your replies to my questions about reading within your genre and word counts. Seems like most of you keep track of counts on a professional level, to help you gage progress, story type and whether something should be reexamined for content - all good reasons.

I don't take a very professional approach with my own material, and I suppose that's a bit out of rebellion and a bit out of denial. I've written professionally for years under deadlines and word counts and slogging through content that I'd rather poke out my eyes than deal with, so I tend to go to the other extreme and ignore rules with my own stuff. That's something I'm trying to resolve.

More questions:
Do you write to meet the standards of the market, or do you just go with your heart and hope someone gives your work a chance?

How do you think the book industry fares in terms of accepting original material, and are changes to the market and how consumers are choosing their titles affecting that? Is it better or worse than the music and film industries, or on par?

Comments

[niniane]

I write what I want to write. I accepted long ago that, baring some tremendous streak of luck, I'll never make enough writing to make it worth anything. (i.e. if I'm super lucky, I'll earn approximately what I would have at a minimum wage job) As such, I do it for myself. Markets be damned.

That said, if I write something that feels appropriate for a market only with a few tweaks, I tweak it. I see nothing inherently wrong with say, padding a story out a bit, or cutting a bit, or whatever to make word count. Or changing the theme to meet an anthology, or whatever. TBH, I've now written two stories specifically for anthologies just to see if I could. (Hah, we'll see if either is accepted.) I see nothing wrong with writing to a market - it's actually a fun challenge. So would I write something I thought was garbage for a market? Would I write about a theme that bored me? Hell no. But I'm totally willing to fiddle with an idea I've been given by someone else.

I honestly think that book publishers are probably more open than most others, because it's cheaper to publish a book than, say, make a movie or even record an album. This gives a certain degree of freedom in betting on unusual ideas/new authors/whatever. That said, I haven't tried to sell a screen play or a CD, so who knows?

[intothewood]

I write what I want to write. I accepted long ago that, baring some tremendous streak of luck, I'll never make enough writing to make it worth anything. (i.e. if I'm super lucky, I'll earn approximately what I would have at a minimum wage job) As such, I do it for myself. Markets be damned.

My thoughts exactly!

[breezeshadow]

I have never tried to publish anything as of yet (I just don't think my writing is up to par yet), so I can only comment on the first question.

I am writing very much for myself. I don't even know what the standards for a fantasy novel are, these days -- judging by what's out there, it definitely isn't what I'm writing. My writing started off as a tongue-in-cheek parody of what I thought was stereotypical and ridiculous in the average fantasy genre, and while it has since grown into its own thing, I still have a few tongue-in-cheek moments because I just can't help itself.

Now once I try to publish this novel or some short stories, will I cater to the market's standards? Maybe, if it feels okay and doesn't completely destroy what I wrote. For now, though, I'm writing what keeps me interested, and will see in the future if the book industry finds it worthwhile.

[intothewood]

I like the tongue-in-cheek aspect you mentioned. It sounds like a fun approach!

[breezeshadow]

Heh, thanks! It is pretty fun though I'm not sure tongue-in-cheek was the proper term. For instance, I have the super-powerful mage character who stalks one of the characters, and instead of falling head-over-heels over him the character is incredibly uncomfortable and eventually tells him to back off. Also when a fight happens in the streets the police break it up once they get there instead of just being nonexistent/ineffective. Basically me going "Yeah see, this is how this kind of stuff would ACTUALLY go down", purely for my own amusement/satisfaction.

[analect]

I'm going to start by saying 'for the love of all that's holy, don't use me an example for anything'. Ahem.

My two cents: yes, if you want to see a piece published, you have to take some things into account, whether it's stylistic rules like the show vs. tell principle, or including the requisite amount of bare flesh to market your mystery novel as a romantic thriller (*nonchalant whistle*). But, you should never be in the position of writing by-the-numbers, simply to fulfil a submission call. I strongly believe you need to have at least a core in your work that you know, believe and love. That sounds a bit happy-clappy (blame the cider), but I think it's an issue of integrity. It's not a case of 'writing what you know', but knowing about what you write.

As to the market itself, broadly speaking, I've found that the bigger the publisher, the more they are run by accountants. Especially with current economic conditions, big houses don't really seem interested in risks. An example: Stieg Larsson's books sold well, so we saw a raft of authors marketed as Larsson-likes (Jo Nesbo, and a couple of others I can't currently remember, which is embarrassing.), yet Scandinavian mystery/detective/thriller fiction has been defined as a genre in its own right for years.

The changes we are seeing now in publishing - the rise of ebooks, and the opportunities given to indie and small presses by ecommerce and social media - mean it's easier than it used to be to find a small press who will support you as a new author. Personally, I consider that a more productive use of a writer's time than papering their walls with 'we love your work, but we don't think you're very global' notes from large pubs. (Yes, my grapes of wrath are showing. I shall tuck them back in. *grin*) It doesn't net you big contracts, but there are people who are able to make a meagre living, especially in certain genres. It also grants greater freedom and flexibility, so the cookie-cutter aspects of publishing don't tend to come into force.

For me, I just enjoy the act and the process of writing, regardless of genre or function. I have been fortunate in that I've found readers enjoy the more lyrical end of my prose, so when I write for publication, I emphasise what I know people have liked. Equally, sometimes you have to just go with what you want to write, and screw the rules. They are, after all, made to be broken... but only if you know which way to bend them first.

I have no experience with film and very little with music, though that's much like indie authoring, as I understand. More freedom, smaller profits. On the plus side, no contractual obligations, and fewer irritating label people. I will cease waffling now. ;)

[intothewood]

For the love of all that's holy (or unholy as the case may be) I think you make some good observations.

I've always preferred the indies, whatever art form it may be. That's where the real talent lies, imo.

[niniane]

I think that there is something to be said for large publishers, but I 100% agree that they're motivated by dollar figures. (Which makes sense, they are businesses!) If something is seen as both good and commercial, they'll publish it. But if they think that your story has too small of a market (true for a lot of genres/novels/whatever), they won't touch you. It's a rational business decision, even if it does leave out some otherwise good stories.

I do think that you can carve out a niche through indies, although it's hard to do, and probably relies as much upon business sense/marketing as it does through good writing ability. (I think that both are probably rather necessary to create a successful indie book.) I've seen a few good posts on how authors have managed, but probably even they got lucky!

[analect]

Definitely, it's a business - it has to be a business/marketing thing for indie authors too, which is why I'm such a supporter of small presses and their role in bringing niche or non-mainstream authors to readers' attention. It's nice not to have to go it completely independently. ;)

Interestingly, I notice in this month's Kindle Direct Publishing newsletter that, for the first time, a self-published author, John Locke, has sold over a million Kindle ebooks. Naturally, he's now put out a book all about how he did it(TM). Still, probably worth looking at for those going down said route, who have time and money to fling at promo and marketing. (Gawd, I sound grumpy. Off back under my rock with my codeine.)

[niniane]

Yeah, indie authors who hope to sell/have anyone read them do need to think of it as a business as far as pricing/marketing/everything else. (And those who do well succeed on that as much as on their writing, I suspect.)

I definitely think that there are a lot of advantages to small presses - both in their ability to bring niche products to market and they do pay a lot better for the author. (I mean, I couldn't imagine someone making 30-70% on their books anywhere other than in ePublishing.)

I think that niche works for some, not for others. There are pros and cons to any type of publishing. ePublishing will probably never quite have the cache of a publishing house picking you up (unless you sell millions of copies, which is unlikely). You do have to be super careful about editing/marketing/everything else (which would be handled for you in a mainstream publishing house - admittedly not all that well, but you get something.) I mean, no matter how you look at it, there's a certain amount of skill in the author and luck...but the risk and reward ratios break down somewhat differently. *shrugs*

I'm not even sure that you need all that much money to fling into marketing. But I do think that you have to be very social media savvy, and to have an idea that in some way "stands out". That's hard to do! (I mean, think about all the fairly good stories that are totally neglected on ffnet. What makes something popular? I still honestly don't know to be completely honest.)